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alan2102's avatar

"if the Club started planning the extermination of humankind more than 50 years ago, maybe it is time for them to switch to Plan B."

lol

I've made this point several times to right/populist conspiracy types ("they're trying to kill us all!"), re the Club of Rome and "the elites" in general, but it just bounces off of them. If they were trying to kill us all, why don't they just do it, ffs? Take down the power grid for a few months and precipitate mass die-off. Easy peasey.

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Alternative Lives R Available's avatar

A very good post, well researched, well analysed and well written. Thank you!

A few points:

You say," Let’s imagine a major collapse of agricultural production due to a combination of climate change, resource depletion, soil erosion, and wars that stop global food delivery."

I would add to that the dependence of Western agriculture on fossil fuels, from diesel for machinery, transport, drying, processing and packaging, to gas for pesticides and fertilisers, to the point where the oft-quoted figure is 10 calories of fossil fuels for one calorie of food output. With EROEI fast approaching zero, and militaries gearing up for diesel-intensive wars, I can imagine that governments and elites might be considering depopulation, as in deporting millions of undocumented migrants, for example, as a necessary preparation for the inevitable.

I would add to that the question; what is the population for? if AI can replace middle management and robotics can replace factory and farm workers, does an elite need a mass of people anymore? Yes, corporations need customers, skilled workers and investors, but what are the rest for?

Next, I'll mention that in the 1980's I worked as a consultant in London, including for the Thames Water Authority that managed both the River Thames through London, and the water supply and drainage. At that time some academic research came to the conclusion that the full flow of the Thames was abstracted, used by people and industry, disposed into the drainage system, processed and returned 'clean' to the Thames SIX TIMES between Oxford and East London. The researchers pointed out that the processing to 'clean' did not removes many pollutants, in particular estrogen in birth control pills that was accumulating in the Thames to the point where drinking water in East London contained 'medically significant amounts'. As far as I'm aware the problem was never solved.

Next, I am old enough to remember the original Live Aid (Band Aid) concert way back in 1985 when Bob Geldof and Midge Ure raised millions for Ethiopian famine relief. Two facts emerged later; Firstly that throughout the famine, Ethiopia remained a net exporter of food, because the food export income was needed to pay it's debts. So the famine wasn't a food shortage problem, it was a money to pay for the food problem. Secondly that the Live Aid money went a long way, not just to solve the immediate famine, but also to help agriculture recover. It was so successful that there was a considerable rise in the birthrate, so when the next drought and famine came along, there were many more people and particularly children starving.

Lastly, to answer your point about whether to simply watch a population collapse and not offer aid, I would mention the report a few years ago by the United Nation's envoy that was invited to examine poverty in America, and later commented that it was as bad or worse than any he had seen in his work in Africa. So in America, I would say, the answer is already clear and happening right now.

Considering that in my lifetime the population has risen from 2.4 billion to 8 billion+ on the basis of the availability of massive quantities of very cheap fossil fuels, and that is coming to an end, I would say the future collapse of population is both inevitable and imminent. And it will be very messy and disturbing.

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